My "Hero" Blog

[Luke95]

I doubt he is worried. Internal plumbing and cell.
Not to be that guy but also don't the fuel lines run next to the header?

[Johnnie Walker]

Originally Posted by XJensen

Fuel lines would be a huge concern. Not worth it IMO

Insulating the fuel lines and/or some type of barrier as well would make it a non issue. A custom cut airbake sheet maybe? haha.
A 4" round muffler, or a maggy glasspack style muffler would be necessary though. Can pick up those maggy glasspacks on amazon in several different lengths on amazon for under 60$.

[Jeep450r]

Originally Posted by CAJJ93XJ

that's a good looking cross member. the only concern I have is the 2x4 welded directly to those flat plates. that's a lot of force mounted on one 2x4 and a 3 link will act like a lever. It might take awhile, but I could see it fatiguing the welds and wanting to twist that 2x4 away from the flat plate, or even bend the flat plates. for peace of mind I would want some additional bracing if possible

That is a definite concern of mine as well. I need to get the frame side link mounts in place so I can figure out how to place the gussets. It sure is a lot of force and you're right, the weld alone might not be enough (although theres 8+" of weld per side).

Originally Posted by blondejoncherokee

Keep in mind exhaust routing around that upper link mount pass side .

I was crawling around under there today and if I can place my frame side mounts as I want to, I should have plenty of room.


I dropped the axle off with Sean at River City Differentials Tuesday around 4:00PM. He called me yesterday at around 3:00 telling me it was ready to be picked up. 23 hour turnaround... Not bad... not bad..




I fooled around in solidworks a little bit again. Hacked this front end together in a jiffy.






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Just Kidding.. I didnt draw that. But, I do have the OEM CAD file for that bad boy. Its a JK Dana 30 so the center section is different and the tubes are longer. It'll do for my simulation though.


So I mocked up some hack links and connected them to the crossmember and cycled it. Here's the results with the upper 2" longer than the lowers. I think it should be a litttle bit longer to add a bit more pinion angle change but we will see how I can package it all under the jeep.

Ride height:



Droopish:




The angle between "ride height" and "droop" was an unscientific 6.72 degrees.

I know the numbers dont mean much, especially because I dont know how much this setup will actually droop. But its fun to see in solidworks and I get to practice my CAD skills too. Plus, you guys like pretty pictures.


Ok ok, back to the garage now..

[CAJJ93XJ]

how much separation are you running at frame/axle? probably mentioned it but I don't read so good

[blondejoncherokee]

Looks like he has 3-3.5" at the frame and 6-7" at the axle

I am at about 3.5" at the frame myself.

[CAJJ93XJ]

Originally Posted by blondejoncherokee

Looks like he has 3-3.5" at the frame and 6-7" at the axle

I am at about 3.5" at the frame myself.

for sure. He probably wouldn't even notice a difference bumping that up to 8" at the axle and 4" at the frame

[blondejoncherokee]

Originally Posted by CAJJ93XJ

for sure. He probably wouldn't even notice a difference bumping that up to 8" at the axle and 4" at the frame

If I could have done 4" or more at the frame I would.

He Could go a little higher at the axle with ease like you said.

[Jeep450r]

Originally Posted by CAJJ93XJ

how much separation are you running at frame/axle? probably mentioned it but I don't read so good

Im going for 8" separation at the axle. The solidworks model shows like 2.5 or 3 at the frame, but I'm going to have to cut the floor more than I thought so I might as well bump that up.


How important is frame side separation? From what I have gathered, as long as the upper link is as flat as possible, I'll be fine? That doesn't call for much frame side separation though.

[blondejoncherokee]

Flat or angled down on the upper.

[Jeep450r]

Been putting in some work. All the links are mocked up. The frame side links had to be in-boarded quite a bit to clear the frame. Everything is a tight fit but I think it will work out just fine.

I was able to squeeze out 3.75-4" of vertical separation at the frame side but am struggling with the axle side. I got the Ruffstuff axle side link tower with the highest hole being 6.25" off the axle tube so that I could achieve 8" of separation at the axle. That thing is HUGE though and leaves me with maybe 2.5-3" clearance to my oil pan. I'm not sure what to do about it. I might be stuck running my other link tower at 6.5" separation. It is shown in the pictures below.


Not enough clearance



Here's a picture showing how I made the mounts. It's all 3x3x3/16" box tube and I cut it all out with a chop saw. The frame side lowers are angled 10* and the upper is 0*. It was super simple to make these brackets.



Links:







The axle side upper link tower is going to have to go more to the passenger side. It's a very tight fit up there between the starter and the frame rail. I still need to cut the upper control arm bracket out too.

Unfortunately, I was not able to keep the lower frame side links and mounts flush with the bottom of the skid. They hang down a little bit, but I plan on building some sweet gussets/sliders/ramps for them, so I'm not too concerned.

My biggest concern right now is the axle side mount. I want 8" separation but don't think I will be able to get what I want and am concerned about the ill effects of too little separation.

Otherwise, the upper link is angled down 1* and the lowers at 6*. My goal was 0* for the upper and 5* for the lowers so I'm pretty happy this far

Just a few more tweaks and I'll be able to cycle the suspension and if all goes well, make the real links.

[XJ_Rudolph]

dude those cad files are sick!!! I hope you guy her all fixed up!

[blondejoncherokee]

Do your coils compress enough for that thing to ever hit the oil pan? Just bump stop the thing perhaps . Maybe add ankther 1/2" of lift too

[knucklehead 61]

from what i remember of 3 links it really doesn't matter much on separation or angle.
more like just connecting the dots. rear 4 link geometry is much more critical.
why cant you more the upper axle side mount outboard more? just notch the mount to fit onto the track bar mount, tipping it rearward if needed for clearance.
search the pirate 3 link geometry / design threads for more info.

[Jeep450r]

Originally Posted by blondejoncherokee

Do your coils compress enough for that thing to ever hit the oil pan? Just bump stop the thing perhaps . Maybe add ankther 1/2" of lift too

Probably yes. I have 5 inches of uptravel at the bumpstops and that bracket is only like 3 inches away.

Originally Posted by knucklehead 61

from what i remember of 3 links it really doesn't matter much on separation or angle.
more like just connecting the dots. rear 4 link geometry is much more critical.
why cant you more the upper axle side mount outboard more? just notch the mount to fit onto the track bar mount, tipping it rearward if needed for clearance.
search the pirate 3 link geometry / design threads for more info.

Thanks for the input Tim. I should be able to get the axle side mount more outboard to the passenger side. Ill definitely notch it and will also be cutting the track bar mount to allow it to slide to the passenger side a bit more.


No more progress today, but here is a video my buddy posted of our 2015 wheeling season.

[CAJJ93XJ]

if you increase the separation at the frame side a bit you should prevent dive when braking. I'm running 4" and I loved it on the freeway and during emergency stopping but I'm sure I probably wouldn't notice a difference if I dropped it down to 3.5"

it's been so long that I researched all this. Here's the best piece of info I ever found

Originally Posted by Goatman
On the front you're concerned with anti-dive instead of anti-squat, under breaking rather than under power. Screw the 3 link calulator, it's basically useless, and even if it was a little useful very few would understand it enough to make a difference. Make the arms as flat as possible, especially the upper arm, period. If the lowers are mounted even with the axle tube, and the upper arm is close to flat at ride height, it will work and handle fine. No big secrets, nothing hard to figure out.